Allan, Author at Digital Solopreneur
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How Email Marketing Allowed This Pinoy Teacher To Make A Full-Time Income (While Staying in a First World Country)

How Email Marketing Allowed This Pinoy Teacher To Make A Full-Time Income (While Staying in a First World Country)

Introduction

In this video, we’re going to talk about personal finance and how a solopreneur is crushing this market

I sat down with J3 Patino of Pinoy Money Academy to talk about how he generates consistent income mainly through emails (no ad spend). He also shared with me his “cheating” style when it comes to writing emails that sells.

(Note: Timestamps are available in the "Show Notes" below so you can jump to your favorite part instantly)

Show Notes

4:40 - Two “Pangromansa Techniques” that keeps his students glued to his training videos until the end

6:20 - Exactly how much of J3’s business comes from emails

7:25 - His favorite list building strategies

9:47 - DEMONSTRATION: The “Cheating Method” to write emails fast

16:40 - How adding humor increases engagement and makes writing emails a whole lot more fun. (Plus, J3 reveals his favorite subject line that made his audience laugh… literally).

18:22 - Discover why J3 refused to run Black Friday Sale (and why he increased his product 10x instead)

24:18 - How many emails should I write? Forever na ba ito?

29:35 - A funny story of how a young J3 handled a troll (and how he deals with them now)

31:25 - How to deal with the emotional roller coaster of running an online business as a solopreneur

39:20 - How did J3’s spouse reacted to his career (w/ a special appearance from his daughter)

44:30 - What’s the biggest thing that surprised you about email marketing?

46:30 - What’s your most expensive mistake in business?

50:00 - Emails are an _ _ _ _ _

54:00 - How to create a back end funnel that runs 24/7 and deposits cash to your bank account while you chill

Resources

Our readers can't get enough of these...

Email List Building: 100+ New Leads with Zero Ad Spend

Email List Building: 100+ New Leads with Zero Ad Spend

Introduction

Do you want to know the secret to build a massive email list of qualified leads for free?

In this interview, Jay Castillo of ForeclosurePhilippines.com, one of THE most respected authority sites on real estate, shares his strategy for building a HUGE email list (92,455 to be exact as of this writing) without spending on ads. 

(Note: Timestamps are available in the "Show Notes" below so you can jump to your favorite part instantly)

Show Notes

Jay’s life before becoming an online entrepreneur (and how this nice guy got the reputation of being “galit sa tanga”) (4:50)

The horrifying episode that changed Jay’s view of work forever (9:01)

The one book that made this family man ditch a lucrative IT career and start a career in a totally different market as a total nobody (14:35)

How Jay turned “garbage” advice that his smart friends ignored into his flagship blog post that now generates millions of visits a year. (18:40)

The #1 way the blog ForeclosurePhilipines.com is making money (Hint: It’s totally passive) (20:55)

The exact number of monthly unique visitors to get accepted into ad networks that earn you 2x-3x more than Google Adsense (25:35)

How Jay is collecting 100+ new email subscribers from free traffic (and the exact copy he used to grab them) (30:05)

How long should you blog to see organic traffic (and the one type of post that has the longest life) (36:35)

A simple hack that can give you consistent traffic...even if you stop working (42:05)

The one cue that tells Jay when to open his course again (It involves segmenting) (43:56)

The type of email he sends (& how often does he do it) (46:55)

The secret question Jay asks BEFORE a product launch that always boosts his sales (based on experience, hindi sa libro) (53:05)

The most surprising thing Jay discovered about email marketing (AND why he doesn’t care even if Facebook don’t approve his ads (57:25)

The most expensive business mistake Jay made (Hint: He could’ve bought real estate with this)(1:03:55)

Jay’s four-letter “safety blanket” when everyone around him (including his family) is belittling his online career. (1:05:50)

Resources

10 Irresistible Email Subject Lines That Attracts Customers (& Repels Freeloaders)

10 Irresistible Email Subject Lines That Attracts Customers (& Repels Freeloaders)

Writing that perfect email subject line is getting harder and harder.

People’s inboxes are full, attention spans are shrinking, and competition is at an all-time high.

It doesn’t matter if your email can convert like crazy when nobody opens it in the first place.

I think the great David Ogilvy sums it up best when he said:

“On the average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body copy. When you have written your headline, you have spent eighty cents out of your dollar.”

Here’s the thing.

I don’t like wasting time writing emails people will just ignore.

My gut tells me you don't too. 

If so, you’re in luck.

I’m going to give you a shortcut.

After sending millions of emails in the past year, I took 10 email subject lines with the highest open rates and hand them over to you on a silver platter.

And it won’t just be a simple list.

No. No No.

The secret sauce behind the subject ain’t just the words themselves but also the situation where they were used as well as a deeper understanding of why it worked.

So on top of the list, you’ll also get...

  • Context - Which situation I used them (i.e. launches, daily emails, affiliate promotions etc)
  • Analysis - Since there’s no surefire way to tell why a subject line works, here's my educated guess on why it did. 

Lastly, these email subject lines were sent to my main email list and not some small segmented list which tends to inflate the numbers.

Cool? Great!

Let’s start.

10

If I were to start my business all over again, I'd do this.

Open Rate: 24.08%

Context:
This is the opening email for a sequence I wrote promoting an affiliate product. My aim is to get as many targeted eyeballs to read this email hence I went for broad topic but one that still talks to my target market.

(SIDENOTE: Affiliate products are goods or services of other people that you offer for a commission)

Why I think it worked:
Topics for beginners are super relatable.

There’s a copywriting principle called “Enter the conversation that’s going on in their minds” which basically tells us to meet people where they’re at.

So for example you run a yoga newsletter, sure it’s cool to learn how to do a split but if your subscribers are stiff as a board and just bending over to reach their toes feels like a suicide mission, it won’t appeal to them.

A subject line like “Want to reach your toes when you stretch? Do this” would be infinitely more relatable ( believable) for someone just starting out.

9

The day I got eaten alive

Open Rate: 24.22%

Context:
This is another email promoting an affiliate product.

Why I think it worked:
It screams adventure!

For one, it’s a shocking title. You then add contrast on top of it, I mean, if you’ve been eaten alive, how come you’re alive to tell the tale?

There’s instant intrigued baked in the subject line.

It’s short but those six words creates an huge amount of tension that the reader can easily resolve by just opening the email. 

8

Gary Vaynerchuk

Email Subject Line Sample: Use Influencer name for a bump in your open rate

Open Rate: 24.31%

Context:
This is part of a pre-launch campaign ahead of the re-launching of my membership site Inbox Society.

SIDENOTE: Inbox Society is a online membership program that teaches the use of email marketing to harness the power of storytelling and copywriting to sell almost anything to anyone from the comforts of your own home.

Why I think it worked:
I noticed myself clicking on these kinds of email subject lines myself. When I see the name of a popular personality in my space, I tend to click.

The main reason? Mystery.

My thought process goes something like

Why is he on the subject line?”
"Did he interview the influencer?" 
"Was he the one interviewed?" 
"Are they collaborating? "
"Is somebody going to get bashed?"

I just need to know. My finders are just telling me “Just click the damn thing already!”

So that’s that.


7

(True story) From jeepney barker to buying a car every month

Open Rate: 24.45%

Context:
This is another email for an affiliate promotion.

Why I think it worked:
There’s two parts to this.

First, everybody loves a rags to riches story. Most of us see ourselves as underdogs as we pursue our goals. We often think that the odds are stacked against us and seeing someone who’s even in a more disadvantageous position gives us hope that “yes, I can freakin’ do it too!”

Second, buying a car every month is a BOLD claim. Something that people can easily dismiss. By having the word “(true story)” in front, it creates tension.

Making you think “Wait, is this really true?”

*Click!*

6

The best copywriting books in your hands (not available locally)

Open Rate: 24.61%

Context:
In this email, I was recommending a site that ships hard to find books for free.

Why I think it worked:
In my niche, email marketing, I noticed that people go bananas whenever someone would ask for recommendation on copywriting books on social media.

The comments would get flooded with suggestions.

Thus, I knew this email subject line will get attention. ​

Plus, the words “not available locally” sparks that innate desire to get something we don’t (or can’t) have.

Free download:
30 Attention-Grabbing Subject Lines That Makes Your Emails Noticed, Opened, and Read

Discover the 5 types of email subject lines your business needs (and when you should use them)

5

[Notice] Your Email Marketing Crash Course Access

Open Rate: 25.23%

Context:
This email was sent to subscribers who were having trouble accessing the course.

Why I think it worked:
Subscribers were supposed to get a new lesson daily via email.

However, the lessons suddenly stopped due to a technical issue. Once, it was resolved I included “[Notice]” in the subject line which implies both importance and urgency which were both appropriate in this situation.

The word “notice” has this “open this or else…” vibe to it which makes people open your email to avoid the pain of inaction. 

4

Buntis ka?

Email Subject Line - Buntis ka? / Are you pregnant?

Open Rate: 25.28%

Context:
This is a stand-alone email that was used to invite subscribers to an Ask Me Anything Session.

Why I think it worked:
Pregnancy can be a touchy subject.

The question implies that the pregnancy was a new discovery (perhaps even implies that it was hidden).

Now this subject line isn’t for the faint hearted.

Here’s where I got the idea.

I came across a poster from a church using “Buntis ka?” as its headline in an effort to call out young women who feel alone because of the unexpected pregnancy.

The body of the email explains how the church is using its understanding of its target market to create an eye-grabbing poster that speaks directly to its intended audience.

Even with a thorough explanation, I’ve gotten angry emails for its use.

I don’t take it personally. I doubt they even spent the time reading the body copy.

On the flip side, I had a subscriber who wrote back bewildered how I knew she was pregnant thinking I was only sending the email to her.

At the end of the day, it got eyeballs.

It also split my true fans from the lurkers.

Power Tip:
Use with caution. Only use this if you have ample experience or if your have a strong relationship with your audience (& can take the heat). Make sure you can pay off the curiosity right away. Justify the use of the subject line immediately to release the tension it can create. 

3

? Important! Php79,740 on the line

Open Rate: 25.96%

Context:
This is the second email of an affiliate sequence. It was intended to announce the early bird bonuses of the particular launch I’m promoting.

Why I think it worked:
Strategic use of emojis can add personality to your subject line not to mention help you stand out in the inbox.

In this case, I was relying on our natural instinct to survive. Hence I used a red dot (?) which implies importance, urgency, and danger. Channeling that fear to read my email which is informing them of the risks of losing a fortune.

And not just any fortune, specifically Php79,740 worth.

Adding specificity makes your claims more believable.

Think Php79,740 vs Php70,000+

Right?

Lastly, the pain of losing beats out the joy of victory. I made it a point to emphasize the risk of “losing” the bonus instead of promoting its benefit.


2

This affects you

Open Rate: 30.85%

Context:
This is a “blind” subject line. Meaning you don’t have an idea of what’s inside aside from the fact that it promises to be relevant to you. This allows a lot of flexibility.

In this particular situation, I used it to invite my audience to a webinar.

Why I think it worked:
Our favorite topic is “Me, Myself, and, I”. On the surface, the word “you” caters to our desire to learn more about ourselves.

However, I believe there’s an implicit promise that’s immediately made in their mind upon reading the subject line and that’s --- “This affects you (... and only you)”.

That’s because email is personal.

Sure we are aware that we’re part of a newsletter.

That’s the conscious part of our brain speaking.

But the immediate visceral reaction upon reading that feels like a message directly made for you --- no one else. 

1

Was it something I said?

Open Rate: 31.19%

Context:
This email comes at the tail end of a product launch sequence. It’s aim is to drive non-buyers to a survey asking them why they didn’t buy at this time.

Why I think it worked:
The line “Was it something I said?” sounds like you offended someone.

Situations that can become awkward.

That’s why we want to resolve it right away by saying --- Oh no, it’s just that…”

The equivalent of doing that online is to open the email (to know the context) and answer the survey (to give the explanation).

The reason I say this is because I’ve gotten comments of people giving me the “It’s not you, it’s me” response in the survey. Oddly enough, they’re the ones who feel guilty not buying your product and are even willing to leave a long response to “clear the air” and get back to your good graces (even if they weren’t ever on your bad side).

Power tip:
I’ve found best success with this on warm audience --- particularly at the end of launches.

In real life, we only use that line with people we know. Hence cold audiences may feel a little “weirded out” hearing it.

So take caution. 

Conclusion

You can use these email subject lines as is or as inspiration for coming up with yours.

You understand your audience so tweak them accordingly if you must. The key here is to understand the thinking behind the email and apply your intimate knowledge of your market to come up with something that “clicks”.

From our list above, what’s your favorite subject line? Do you have a subject line that worked wonders for you?

Share them in the comments section below.

Blockbuster! The 6 Step Story Structure That Hollywood Uses to Turn Plain Vanilla Tales into Huge Hits

Blockbuster! The 6 Step Story Structure That Hollywood Uses to Turn Plain Vanilla Tales into Huge Hits

IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode, we're going to talk all about storytelling. We have Michael Hauge, an in-demand story coach from Hollywood screenwriters to online entrepreneurs.  He's going to share how we can use his 6 step story structure in our email marketing to build rapport with our audience and bring out the powerful buying emotions that can take your sales to the next level. 

HIGHLIGHT REEL:

  • check
    Discover the 3 biggest reasons why stories can cut through the clutter and make people willingly pull out their wallets for you (Hint: It has nothing to do with the features of your product).
  • check
    Michael tells a story on the spot complete with easy-to-follow explanation on why each steps matter and ties it in a nice little ribbon at the end. Don't miss this!
  • check
    The #1 Question Michael Wishes People Ask You About Storytelling (and the one thing he wants people stop asking him about!)

RESOURCES:

How to Create A Massive Friend’s List of Ready Buyers from Facebook (Even if You’re A Complete Nobody)

How to Create A Massive Friend’s List of Ready Buyers from Facebook (Even if You’re A Complete Nobody)

Who else wants to have an audience of PROVEN buyers that hangs on their every word without the need for a blog, Facebook page, or a Facebook group for that matter.

That’s exactly what Mitch Miller, big boss of Opposed Media, will reveal in this action-packed interview.

In this interview, you’ll learn:

  • Find out where proven buyers hang out (& how to get noticed)
  • How to “deep-dive” methodology of answering questions that positions yourself as an authority
  • Facebook Post Secrets: Profitable copy techniques that make your posts just plain irresistible
  • Don’t offer your services (that’s suicide), do this instead…

“Aha!” Moment

It’s been said that you learn better by teaching others, so if you want to actually remember what you learned, I suggest you share the biggest lesson you learned in the comments section below.

Remember what you learned by passing it on.

One to Many – How to Use Webinars to Establish Instant Authority, Create Rabid Fans and Explode Sales with Joel Erway

IN THIS EPISODE:

"Why would people buy from me? I'm not an authority in my niche."

Is this holding you back?

If it is, then I have good news for you.

No one is born with authority (unless you're royalty).

One more thing. Just because a person is perceived as an authority by most doesn't mean he's an authority in the eyes of EVERYONE. 

There is always room for more.

And one of the fastest ways to do that is through webinars.

In this episode, highly sought-after webinar consultant, Joel Erway of The Webinar Agency will take you behind the scenes on what it takes to run a successful webinar.

We'll talk about how to structure your webinar, what you should share in your webinar (& why teaching kills your sales), how to remove that lump in your throat as you transition from the content to the pitch and a whole lot more!

Note: This interview is part of Inbox Society's Expert Interview series where we invite industry leaders to share best practices in complimentary fields that'll grow your email-powered online business.

Learn more about Inbox Society here.  

HIGHLIGHT REEL:

  • check
    Why teaching is killing your webinar. Discover the #1 thing you should talk about in your webinar.
  • check
    How to start selling BEFORE you even get to the offer.
  • check
    Awkward No More! How to confidently switch from content to pitch minus the ‘guilt’
  • check
    Copy Joel’s ‘Swiss Army Knife’ presentation structure that works for webinars, FB Lives, live presentations etc.
  • check
    Script Hack: How Joel Comes up with a FULL webinar script without typing any of it (Okay, he writes the outline but this single hack will make watching this video worth it.)

RESOURCES:

How I Charge Premium Clients $2,000 and up By Simply Asking Questions by Ann Irza

IN THIS EPISODE:

Ann Irza, a direct response marketer and an Ask Method specialist drops by to give us an inside look at how the Ask Method has helped her start a business from zero to profitable in just 8 weeks in an obscure (but highly profitable) niche and how branding herself as an Ask Method specialist paid back her ENTIRE investment in the course with just one premium client.

HIGHLIGHT REEL:

  • check
    Zero to Hero: How asking smart questions allowed Ann to start a profitable business in just 8 weeks in an obscure (but profitable) niche that she doesn't know anything about.
  • check
    Her "One Stop Service" freelancing approach that allowed her to charge $2,000 - $5,000 a pop by offering her services as an Ask Method specialist (Hint: You don't even have to finish the entire course to start offering this).
  • check
    Is it Lego or Legos? Why the answer to this question can mean the difference between capturing your audience's ears (and do whatever you want with it) and being ignored for ever.

RESOURCES:

PASSIVE DOMINATION: How I Grew My Email Open Rate From 20% to 70% in a Crowded Market Without Changing a Word of Copy

PASSIVE DOMINATION: How I Grew My Email Open Rate From 20% to 70% in a Crowded Market Without Changing a Word of Copy

IN THIS EPISODE:

Pat Flynn of Smart Passive Income Podcast which has gotten over 30 million downloads drops by to talk all about email marketing and it’s impact on his business.

We talk about the power of laser-targeting your message to the right segment of your audience, the monthly habit that Pat uses to get the pulse of his audience while making them feel they won the jackpot and some surprising personal tidbits you didn’t know about Pat.

HIGHLIGHTS:

  • check
    The ingenious way Pat found the subtitle of his best-selling book (and why he doesn’t want to sell it to everyone).
  • check
    The one question that single-handedly changed the way Pat ran his business. 
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    How I accidentally made him feel “guilty” about email marketing.
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    What he would’ve done if were to start from scratch (and the #1 mistake that caused his posts to flop).
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    His “go-to” site for content ideas (Do this right and Google will love you to bits for using it).

Show Notes

Interview Transcription 

Allan Ngo:

00:00

Yeah, hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. This is Allan of Digital Solopreneur and today we have a special guest. He's none other than Pat Flynn of Smart Passive Income Podcast. And today we're gonna talk about how he grew his email open rate from 20 percent to 70 percent in a crowded market without changing a word of copy. Not only that, you'll also learn the ingenious way Pat found the subtitle of his best selling book and why he doesn't want to sell it to everyone. The one question that single handedly changed the way Pat run his business, how I accidentally made him feel guilty about email marketing, what he would have done if he were to start from scratch and the number one mistake that caused his post to flop. And lastly his go to site for content ideas. Do this right, and Google will love you to bits for using it. So without further ado, let's get started. Welcome to the show Pat.

Pat Flynn:

01:01

Hey, thank you Allan. Thank you. Uh, all the Digital Solopreneurs out there. I appreciate your time today.

Allan Ngo:

01:06

Alright thank you. And you know what Pat, you have a lot of fans here in the Philippines and, but there are things that we want to know about you that maybe people haven't heard from the show, your show of Smart Passive Income. So have a few icebreaker questions just for you. Okay. Will that be fine?

Pat Flynn:

01:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Allan Ngo:

01:26

So let's start off with an easy one. What's your favorite color?

Pat Flynn:

01:30

Favorite color is blue. I like blue.

Allan Ngo:

01:33

Awesome. So I know you play hoops, so what's your favorite basketball team?

Pat Flynn:

01:39

So it's got to be the Golden State Warriors. I'm not saying that because they're just winning and I'm not a bandwagon person. Always liked them. I went to school close to where they played and even before Curry was there I really liked it. So it's been nice that they've been doing pretty well lately.

Allan Ngo:

01:55

Alright. So I know you play hoops. I've saw, I've seen some of the videos. So could you tell us what's your go to move on the cart?

Pat Flynn:

02:02

Oh gosh. So I like to do kind of a fake crossover. So I'll pretend like I'm going to go under the legs and go left and then I go, right. And usually if I could do that I can, I'm pretty quick so I can fake somebody out and then just take it to the hoop.

Allan Ngo:

02:17

So one of the big things that you're known for is being authentic and even-keeled, right? So it makes me curious what gets under Pat Flynn's skin. So in short, what's your pet peeve?

Pat Flynn:

02:30

Oh gosh. Okay. So it has to do with driving. So I'm driving here in the United States if I'm all the way on the left side, that's for the people who are going faster than what gets me is when I have my car on the left side and there's a really slow person on the left side. I'm like, come on, get out of the way back. So it's just little things like that or it's almost the same thing. Like when I'm on the sidewalk and I'm walking and uh, somebody just really slow and I can't get around. I don't know. I like to work and move fast, so I don't want to let anybody hold me back. I guess and same thing on the road and on the sidewalk,

Allan Ngo:

03:08

Right. And I guess that applies in your business as well because your business has grown quite fast over the years. That's a good segue way to our topic which is email marketing. I would like to ask you, with your business growing this much, how big of a role does email marketing play in your business?

Pat Flynn:

03:25

Oh, plays a massive role. I mean it's the number one channel I used to make any announcements whether it's an announcement for a new blog post or a new podcast episode or a new video or if I'm going somewhere and want to meet people or especially when I have a launch or an offer of some kind it's the number one quickest, easiest way to know because email is still a very personable. Even though people are on social media and they're chatting there. I think having an email come from somebody who you trust. I mean you're going to open that rather quickly and I think that's the biggest thing with email. A lot of people abuse email and lose trust and I use email as a tool to gain trust and to have interactions and um, like right now today is, um, I'm in the middle of a course launch and the number one platform I'm using to make that announcement is email and that's how I can keep track of numbers. This many people opened the email to as many people clicked on the link. This many people are buying it. I can then determine, okay, well it seems like a lot of people are reading the email, but nobody's clicking. That tells me, okay, I need to do better at sharing what that value is or setting up the link, you know, email is definitely the number one thing for sure.

Allan Ngo:

04:33

Awesome. So of course you will always want to keep people engage with emails and I've seen your site transform over the years. Uh, I've been following your podcast for quite some time and I think you've gone through like maybe three face lifts over the time that I've been following you. And I noticed that one thing that really stood out to me is how you segment your audience, just based from your blog like you have blogging, affiliate marketing, email marketing, podcasting. What is the importance of segmenting your list?

Pat Flynn:

05:04

Yeah, it's so that I can always send the message that is relevant to the person on the other end. And I, and even though you're building an audience and hopefully all of your websites are about something specific, even though it's about something specific, there are different kinds of people who are interested in specific things. And it's good to know what kinds of people those things are. And the best example, and the easiest one to understand, I can give you is let's see. Let's pretend that you have a photography website and you talk about all about things related to photography. And then all of a sudden you're going to talk about this product that relates to Canon cameras. Canon is a brand of cameras. If you send a Canon camera message to all photographers, whether there's Sony people or Nikon people or Kodak people, um, those people who are not Canon users, they're going to feel like, well, this email is not for me.

Pat Flynn:

05:52

They're gonna feel like, Oh, well soes Pat even know that I don't have a Canon or that I actually hate Canon. Right? So that's the kind of approach you don't want to have just sending one message to everybody because not everybody's the same. So the first step is to understand first what are the different segments or buckets in your audience. And for me it's, it's dependent on a couple things. You mentioned a few of them already. Some people follow me for just podcasting, right? Some people follow me for just affiliate marketing, some people just for blogging and yes, those things do overlap at any given time. A person is interested in one more than another and that makes it easy for me to, when I send an email out, I make a decision, okay, who is this email for? And then also who is this email not for, is in my email system.

Pat Flynn:

06:38

I use convert kit, there's many other email providers out there. You can add certain tags or you can remove certain tags from emails that you're gonna send out. That way every email that I send out I know is being received by somebody who wants to see that email and excuse me. The nice thing about that is people know that now and when you do that from the start, people are more likely to open those emails and click on those links and I noticed a direct when I made this, this was from the latest facelift that you saw. Before, I was just sending one email to everybody and for me a big problem was I talk about a lot of things, so when I send a email to everybody saying, hey, I have a new, a blog post about advanced seo, search engine optimization, what is the. What are the beginners feel? When that happens? They feel left out. They feel like they're in the wrong place, and so once they started segmenting, I started to notice that my open rates started to jump from what was 20 percent when it was everybody. To now, each of those segments are opening them almost all the time. Seventy, eighty percent open rate. That's huge. That's a huge deal because if nobody opens your emails then there's no, there's no point in writing busy. Right? So that's, that's kinda how it's progressed over time.

Allan Ngo:

07:51

That's very interesting. And some of my favorite episodes of your podcast are from when you had Dane Maxwell, Noah Kagan and Ryan Levesque. And you mentioned something about buckets and I remember that episode particularly because you kind of were going through your, your process and Ryan was coaching you through it. It was interesting because I saw the manifestation of that after listening to the podcasts. Um, I got your email doing the survey and so I went through the process and now I saw the outcome, which is your site. How big of a factor was that process that deep dive survey as Ryan calls it in, in your segmentation?

Pat Flynn:

08:35

I mean, it was, it was, it was the direction it gave me. It told me exactly what my buckets are. I mean, that's the first step. So if you don't know what those buckets are in your audience you go and ask your audience, I think the question that Ryan coached me to ask, and that you should ask your audience if you haven't done this yet, is what's the number one struggle you have related to blank and blank. So if you are in photography, you know, what's the latest struggle you have related to photography, and then of course down the road you can ask more additional questions to start to kind of get even more, uh, precise. Like, oh, you're a photographer, what, what kind of camera do you use? And then Sony, Kodak, a Nikon, whatever. So, you know, that's that, that question from Ryan, um, you'll probably put a link to that episode, right?

Pat Flynn:

09:24

With Ryan Levesque to everybody cause I highly recommend you listen to that because he was coaching me through that process. And through that he'll coach all of you too.

Allan Ngo:

09:33

When you did the survey, what were the surprising insights that you uncovered that maybe you didn't know about your audience?

Pat Flynn:

09:41

Yeah you know, I have an idea that a lot of my audience were beginners and people who are just starting out, but I didn't realize how beginner they were until I did survey. So I actually found out that through the 7,000 people who replied to that survey and you don't need to have 7,000 people, even even 30 people give you a really, really good idea of what's happening. But I had over 7,000 data points and I found out that about half of my audience it was, I think it was 49 percent. So basically half, right? They were people who were following me who wanted to start a business, who hadn't even gotten started yet.

Pat Flynn:

10:18

They hadn't even built a blog. They hadn't even started a podcast. They had never even put a video up. There are people who had yet to get started. And I found out because the survey tool I used was called Survey Monkey. So what's cool about this is you can ask a lot of questions and I'm just narrow and filter down the results when you're researching to find patterns. And so what I did was, okay, I clicked on everybody who had said that they had yet to start a business, so it was only showing answers from those people. And then I clicked even further and said, okay, well, what are some of the things that are holding you back? So through that I was able to say, okay, from the people who had yet to get started, here are the things that are holding them back.

Pat Flynn:

10:58

And it was things like the fear of failing, fear of, um, the, the, the, the, the, the fear of trying something and having it not work. The, uh, the fear of, um, you know, not knowing what steps to take all those kinds of things if you're wasting time. And it was interesting because not only was I able to create those buckets from my audience based on that survey, but I actually took the number one fear, which was I'm just afraid of working on something and wasting my time. And I turned that into a book. Will It Fly? The book subtitle is How to Make Sure You Don't Waste Your Time and Money. And that came directly from the survey, so I don't know if you do that, but that, that's what gave me insight that that was the next book I should write. So this just shows you how important it is. And of course when I sold that book I sold it and was very aggressive with the people who had yet to start because that is the other people who were advanced. I didn't even promote the book to them because it didn't align.

Allan Ngo:

12:02

Wow. I didn't know that that came directly from that survey to tell you. I'm not sure if you know this, but I actually bought, when you launch that I bought 10 kindle copies of the book because I really thought that it resonated with what people need because a lot of my audience as well are in the starting stage. And one of the things they asked me is what do they offer, what they, what could they sell? So your book is about validating that offer and before you start going full blast wanting to know if it sells before actually producing it. So yeah. So I didn't know that and yeah, that's a good insight. So

Pat Flynn:

12:41

thank you for supporting that launch and buying this 10 copies or that means the world to me.

Allan Ngo:

12:46

Definitely. And I was actually on the webinar that you gave out as part of the launch. So that was actually the first time I saw you live.

Pat Flynn:

12:55

Yeah, I stayed up the whole night before. Yeah, that was a bad. That launch was crazy. I didn't. That was my first time in figuring things out and I didn't sleep all night and then again, nine in the morning came by probably the afternoon for you. But um, I hadn't slept for like 48 hours and I was just, I was just, I felt like I was dreaming and I don't know if you remember, I was like,

Allan Ngo:

13:23

yeah, I didn't remember it to be that bad.

Pat Flynn:

13:27

Nevermind that it didn't happen.

Allan Ngo:

13:29

Alright. So, so you mentioned a direct application of that survey to your business. Um, how did you approach your business differently upon knowing that information outside of the "Will It Fly" book?

Pat Flynn:

13:43

Fantastic question. So now that I know who is in my audience and who the big chunks of that audience is, um, I'm now able to, when I prepare content, have those buckets in mind and I can create a specific piece of content knowing it's for bucket number one, bucket number two, I can create specific lead magnets to increase my email list for those buckets. Um, I could create products that are specifically for those buckets too. And I know now who to send that email to. For example, my first course was called Smart From Scratch, which is a more higher level, high touch advanced course related to Will It Fly. And so, um, I collected emails from people who read "Will It Fly." I understood from my survey and from the survey I asked my new subscribers which bucket they want to be in based on, you know, have they started a business yet?

Pat Flynn:

14:34

Yes or no Of course, it gets promoted to them after a few days on my email list because that's for them, for people who have already started a business, you know, I'm keeping them in mind and I'm creating solutions for them too, that beginners are never gonna see. And so it's allowing me to better organize my thoughts and organize my content. I think that's been the biggest thing is now when I create a piece of content, it just comes much easier because I can imagine that person on the other end. I mean they've interacted with me through a survey. Um, I've also realized that I needed to go deeper. And so one thing that they do, I don't know if you know this, but every single month I reach out to 10 people and I talked to them on skype. I try to get them on the phone and it's funny because I reach out to them on my email.

Pat Flynn:

15:16

So I'm in there, are there in each of the different buckets. And it's funny because when I reach out to them they're like, is this real? Is the audit that you're asking me? And I'm like, no, it's real, like it'd be crazy to give my phone number out to everybody, but it's, those conversations are really important because when I have this conversations, the first thing I do is ask them, okay, what bucket are they in? Right. And then I go into conversation, okay, um, what's holding you back? What are some things that I'm doing that are doing well? What are some things I could be doing better? What do you wish was here that's not here? What are some other blogs that you read? What are other products that you've bought? And that just gives me some even more interesting intellect so I can better make decisions on my website. Um, and again, it really starts with that question, you know, what, what bucket are you in? So that's, that's how I use that information.

Allan Ngo:

16:04

Perfect. And I actually love that you mentioned about cold phone calls because I do that as well for my audience. Oh, that's great. And it's also one of the best things you mentioned. You don't have to have 7,000 survey respondents to do this. That's a great alternative, like if you have a small audience, go on a phone call with them and get deep rather than wide in terms of your responses and

Pat Flynn:

16:26

well, well said. I love that and the other cool thing about that is when you're just starting out, you have the time and so to reach out to everybody in your audience and have them become your super fan and quicker. I mean I wish I could have an individual conversation with all of my subscribers, but I would be on the phone until I was 80 years old if I did that. If you're starting out, a lot of people assume that they're at a disadvantage and in some ways you are, but when you're starting out you also have a lot of advantages like that. I'm like what Allan is talking about that you can take advantage of.

Pat Flynn:

17:00

Also, one of my favorite questions, I'm not sure if you asked this, if you achieve whatever, say your bucket is creating a product. If you overcome the problem, what would your day be like? I honestly, I love that question so that I could get through their day and I could use it later on in my copy to sell something at this, this the outcome that people tell me. So then like guessing what their ideal outcomes are. So I use that to future pace and

Pat Flynn:

17:34

That's great advice. I mean always I do that in "Will It Fly" and have people create an exercise called the airport has to have them think about the future and what life would be like, but to use that in from conversations or even if you asked that in an email, that would be a fantastic email to write your audience and say, Hey, if you, if, if, if you had a magic wand and can make your day perfectly, so any way you would want, like what would it be like? Man, you can definitely utilize that to paint a picture for people who are coming into your brand for the first time. Because if a person feels like that, likely everybody else using the same situation feels like that too. So I think man, that's really smart.

Allan Ngo:

18:13

The thing that I noticed when they asked that this people don't really have an answer to that quickly, so they think about it and once they think about it, they feel happy that I asked that question because it gave them a vivid picture of what they wanted. So

Pat Flynn:

18:27

scary though, right? Like, yeah, people aren't thinking about that. It makes you realize that a lot of people are just going through the motion of life and they're just kind of an autopilot without any direction with no real goals and it's just great for people like you Allan, to step in there and say, no, no, no. Like, tell me what your real ideal life would be like, and if it's not like that, okay, well now let's take the action to do that.

Allan Ngo:

18:47

Yeah. That. That's what helped me create my own vision board, the remind me of how to keep my compass on what tasks I need to do to accomplish my goals and I think that's. It's a great way to mirror that to our audience. We've mentioned that a lot of our audience are beginners. Knowing what you know now about segmentation, how would you have started your business different?

Pat Flynn:

19:10

You know, I would have started collecting information right from the start now when I started it wasn't possible to do this very easily because of the tools that were not there. Now. There are tools and now and I have the questions that I can use to well equip myself to be able to ask these questions and finding this stuff. I would definitely start understanding more about my audience because when I started I was like, okay, here's what I know and I'm just gonna post it. Here's what I think. Here's what I'm guessing and maybe some people like it. Maybe some people don't. Some posts were hits, some posts were not hits. Now I've taken the guesswork out of it because all my direction is coming from the audience that I'm serving and if you have a small audience and you are having trouble with determining what the direction might be, it's not easy for you to get on conversations where you just don't have a big email list to run a survey for right now.

Pat Flynn:

20:00

Well, there are those people out there in your audience who haven't found you yet, but they're talking, they're talking about other sites, they're talking and other forums or talking to the social media right now. Go in there and figure out what their top questions are. Um, I have a great tool that you can use called Answer. It's not my tool, but it's called AnswerThePublic.com and it is a tool that you could use to type in keywords based on the keyword. It will give back to you all the questions that people are typing into Google related to that topic. All the who, what, where, why, when, how, why, you know, all those things. That is a great place to start to be able to determine, okay, what are the biggest problems, what are the most common questions? And then you can start to put that in your emails. You can start to address those in conversations. You can put them on blog posts, they can be actual videos or blog posts

Pat Flynn:

20:48

that you can use to answer those questions. And then what's cool about that is Google will see that you have a site related to this topic that addresses all of these people's questions. Google wants to serve the top results, um, that are the most helpful to people when people are searching. So you're building your library, your making your site look like an authority site by answering those questions. So that's a great way to approach it. If you don't yet have an audience to ask questions to.

Allan Ngo:

21:13

I consider myself an email copywriter and I do send emails more frequently. I know that you, you kind of like depends. You don't send email as often because you do like pick your spots depending on content.

Pat Flynn:

21:26

I know that I am still working through that. I know that I should be sending more emails than I am. So I'm very happy for you, for your audience that you're teaching them to kind of be a little bit more.

Pat Flynn:

21:40

Because for me I didn't do it because I was scared. I was scared of upsetting my audience and you know, but if you have the right information, I mean it's your duty to send more emails to send them to places that will help. So I'm still learning that too. I'm not perfect and I'm still learning. So, um, yeah, I know any of the email more.

Allan Ngo:

22:00

I think the reason I brought that up is because you mentioned about doing the research and the site that you gave. I will link to that. Is that the analogy that I give for writing? Because a lot of people are having a hard time, like saying they're not a writer. They're not a writer. So they're having a hard time creating content. I tell them usually it's just like a bow and arrow. So as long as when you do proper research, basically half your writing is done already.

Allan Ngo:

22:28

So if you have a lot of research, that's the number of arrows you have and it's easier for you to shoot. So that that's what I love about even the surveys. But when you get those surveys, if you don't have ideas too, right? Just look at the responses. It means that those are the things that people are want to learn more of, so,

Pat Flynn:

22:50

but at the same time, if you have a bow and arrow, right, it's great when nothing is going to fire, unless you put that arrow right in pull back, you got to take action and of course there's resistance, right? We could go more with the hold back. It's getting harder and harder and harder and eventually you have to let go, right? You have to let go of those things that are holding you back and it's only then that the arrow will move forward and you can get your kill or you can hit the bullseye or whatever you want to say, but yeah,

Allan Ngo:

23:20

going even a step further, even if you have all the necessary tools and you hit the try to practice every time, you won't hit the bulls eye all the time.

Allan Ngo:

23:31

So just keep practicing reps. the repetition can help you be more accurate over the long run.

Pat Flynn:

23:38

although that. But at the same time, you don't have to be perfect either. You could still score points or add, right? Yeah.

Allan Ngo:

23:47

There's no way. There's no better way to end that there. It's just been a great conversation Pat. I really enjoyed it. I know that you're a big fan of "Back to the Future" and now if you were able to travel back in time and talk to a young Pat then fresh out of college, what will you tell him about success in life and business or personal? Um, what would be your number one advice to him?

Pat Flynn:

24:15

Yeah. Well, besides Hey man, start your email lists now it would be, you know, get over the fear of reaching out and talking to people. I was a very shy person before. I'm an introvert even still. But I also know the value now of going out and meeting people because you never know your one relationship away that could really change your life. And so I would tell my younger self, you know, what's the worst that can happen? Just go out there, meet as many people as you can, build relationships. Because everything that happens in life is often as a result of the relationships that you built. Not just you, by yourself, only doing things. It's the other people around you that you surround yourself with, that you meet, that you asked for things. Those things matter more than anything. So go out there, start meeting people. Don't be shy and just have fun with it too.

Allan Ngo:

25:03

Awesome. Awesome. Now if people want to learn more about you Pat, how could they reach you?

Pat Flynn:

25:08

Yeah. Hey, thank you Allan. It's been a great conversation. If you want to go and find out more about me, SmartPassiveIncome.com would be the place to go. And also you can find me at Pat Flynn on most major social media channels and I do want to give a shout out to my Youtube channel because I'm actually gonna to be doing a lot on Youtube, uh, next year. So youtube.com/smartpassiveincome. You'll see a lot of fun things there coming. It'd be cool.

Allan Ngo:

25:33

Alright, so thank you very much everyone for listening and all the links that we talked about will be down below this page and talk to you soon. See yah.

Pat Flynn:

25:44

I guess. Thanks.

Allan Ngo:

25:45

Hey, if you enjoy this interview, please don't forget to subscribe to the DigitalSolopreneur.com. Where you get exclusive content, interviews and promotions sent directly to your inbox. Thank you very much and see you soon.

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Pursue your dreams_DigitalSolopreneur

The Unsexy Truth About Pursuing Your Dream (& Why You Still Do it Anyway)

"Pursue your dream!"

It makes for a great soundbite or a shareable quote card on Facebook.

The reality though is as unsexy as hell.

Powering each pursuit are countless hours of focused study, hard work, and frustrating mistakes.Continue reading

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